[English-Français] Futuristic exterior tileset :

Voici le premier topic bilingue du forum.
Nous allons nous lancer dans la création d'un tileset de ville futuriste, en collaboration avec Stacy de la Modern Team.
Cela nous permettra, dans le temps, de faire des maps pour les villes de Nar Shaddaa, Carida, ou Coruscant.
Je commence ici en Français, et je continuerai en anglais, dans la mesure où nous sommes tous, je pense, anglophones. Si certains d'entre-vous sont réfractaires à la langue (de la perfide Albion) de Shakespeare, je m'engage à traduire tout ce qui sera nécessaire.

Fist of all, I would like to discuss the concept of the tileset and after that, the different type of tiles we're going to create.
So, please, Stacy, tell us if you agree with what follows, and don't hesitate to make suggestions, criticises or to ask questions !
(Of course, the same is true for every member of the forum )

As I told you before, we would like to make two tilesets in one, in order to increase the possibilitys of the "mappers" and reduce the modelers work.
That means two types of grounds, buildings and so.
One type for a bright city, and the other for a "dark" city.

As examples, here are two screens which can show the contrast :

http://www.newtekpro.com/ArtGallery/2002/07/SunsetCoruscant.htm

http://www.brokenallegiance.net/media/BA2/images/Landing.jpg


As you already know, tileset in NWN are separated in 3 different categories :

Features
Groups
Terrain

For the begining, her is what I suggest :

1) Features :

- Bright city house
- Dark city house

2) Groups :

- Bright city building
- Dark city building

3) Terrain :

- Grass
- Bright city Ground
- Dark city Ground
- Bright city houses
- Dark city houses
- Bright city water
- Dark city water
- Raise/low ground
- "Hole" (but instead of a black hole, a kind of lower city with animations. I hope I am clear enough )
- Bright city bridge (to cross the "holes" )
- Dark city bridge


And that's all for the moment !

What's your opinion about this ?

1) Are there bodies of water (lacs, océans) on the ground in Coruscant or Nar Shaddaa? Other than in pools or fountains?

2) Do you think there should be different models for the Bright City and Dark City, or the same models with different textures?

3) I think the Bright City ground should look like some kind of platform, not the surface ground, if that is possible. (The surface of Coruscant is supposed to be a sort of underworld (pègre? je ne sais pas le mot), and probably would not look very different from the Dark City surface). Does this make sense?

1) Well, in fact, I don't know
It was just in case of, but maybe we don't need them.
Anyway, we do'n't need to create two different entries for water, but just need to change the rules. But, I think you're right, we should consider this as an optional thing, that we could maybe implement at the end, if we have the courage

2) I think the models should be the same for "Terrain", but must differ for features and Groups.

3) Yes, you're right. In fact, this is what I mean when I was talking about "holes". What I call "hole" is the space between two platforms, linked by a bridge. (or more than one if it's possible. )
Also, those platforms could be used for landing grounds, astroports, etc ...

Yes, and "pègre" is the right word for groups of gangsters.
So that would be the right word

Thanks !

How large-scale (à grande échelle) do you think we should make the groups? It might be difficult to make very large things, but it has been done (Example)

I think we could make a large section of buildings put together if you think it would be a good idea. You can do more when you have more space in which to do it.

But do the mappers want to work with areas this big?

That's a good question !
We have a rule in order to limit the lag, our maps are 9x9 max.
(even if we could break this rule for some maps)
So I would say "smaller" buildings for groups.
Maybe we can have a look to the skyscrapers of the modern city tileset :
Some are
3x3
4x4
2x6
or even bigger.

To my point of view, 4x4 should be the best, but I would like to have the opinion of Drenark, our official mapper.

hi and be very welcome stacy.

My point of view is that for huge buiding models we could use the borders of the map. what do you think of that?

As a piece of information, as far as i'm concerned i agree with each of your answers up to now, enki.

Here is a screen of my fist "house". (It's a placeable, for the test)
Please tell me if I am on the wrong direction, or if you think something can be improved.
It's about 1000 faces, with a small texture.
Obviously, it's for the "bright" city. I thought it could be the house for the feature categorie (élément en français) or belong to a small house in group.
Well, it's just the begining !

The size can be changed, for now, it's 2x2 squares.

That looks very good, how tall is it?

Here is a very basic idea I had for a bridge. This is not textured and is for the most part only a concept model:

Hello !
This bridge is very good ! Exactly what I was expecting !

Have you found a texture for the ground ?

Because we should use either the same ground texture or something very different, don't we ?

For the moment, if you consider the highest point of the building, it's 15 meters high. But I can easily modify it.

Do you think it would be interesting to create other buildings with these textures but with a different shape ?
I'll post some screen this evening, to show you what I mean.

Thank you !

Go on this way, guys, that's good job. just care about the numer of polys, that's all, oh and using the lowest number of different textures is good thing for low configs.

We got it the right way

Enki, where can I get a copy of the textures you have used so far? I would like to make sure any different textures that I use look good with the ones you have used.

Here is my progress, with almost the same model, please tell me if you think it is redondant.

Nice work Enki. I think there's not a really redondance in your model. On the other hand, perhaps you can apply a various form to the high tower with a more large base. Therefore, we will have a cone form with the base but the extremity stay the same (I'm talking about the high tower to the right).

I like the bridge base of the Stacy model. I think we could made a good model with this. This is simple but ... I like it .

That's ok ? You understand my english ?

Ok Dren, I will change the size of the base of the high tower.

At that point, I would like to discuss the form that will take our collaboration.

How are we going to share the work ?
What must be done first ?

I am just a padawan in 3D, and our Jedi, Daynlohim, for the moment, is constructing a protocolar droïd .
As all the important scripts are done, I will work alone with Stacy, and Daynlohim will join us as soon as he can.

I know few things about tilesets, so I will greatly need your help Stacy .
I think we must choose conventions and names for the models.
The first thing to do is the .set file, right ?
Then the .itp with all the informations ?
is there a way to generate these files or must we do them line by line ?
I know only the tutorials by velmar, are there others tutorials that could be usefull ?

Then, we must create a directory on a ftp to share files (textures, models, etc ... )
Drenark, could you create for us such a directory on your FTP ?

Stacy, Can we share the work on the .set and .itp files ? Or these files must be done by the same person to avoid confusion ?

I'm going to think about all this, and write some answers later ...

Bye !

I do think we need to come up with a naming convention first. At least decide on the XXX## part, so we can begin naming our tiles. FCX01 perhaps? (Futuristic City EXterior?) It can be anything, I don't care. Tiles are named like this: XXX##_X##_## Example: tcn01_a01_01 (a tile in the city exterior tileset) I think normally (or at least this is how I do it) the last 2 numbers are variations of a certain kind of tile. Example: tcn01_b01_01 and tcn01_b01_02 are alternate versions of the corner cobble/water tile. When you use the eraser on this tile, it can alternate between these two. Does that make sense?

Then I think we should divide up the tasks, one person works on certain tiles, another person works on other tiles. And we should split up the alphabet to name the tiles we each do, one person can use A through G, another can use H through P, etc. This is so we don't accidentally name tiles the same thing.

I personally find it easier to do the .set file and the .itp file at the end, when we have all the tiles finished. Maybe others think they are easier to do first? And I have always made them line by line, I do not know of a generator to do these.

To test, I usually rename the tile I have made to one that already exists, and put it in the override folder temporarily to make sure it looks nice and the walkmesh works properly.

But if we are working on separate tiles, we should share the textures we use so everything can match.

And did you understand everything I said?

ok stacy, got it all.
let's do this way
So which kind of tile will you do? and what are your letters?

I agree with you for the name : fcx01.

If you don't mind, I can do some of the buildings in groups and features.
Such as standard buildings like towers, houses, etc ...
If you haven't started to name tiles, I'll take the letters A through G.


For the textures, I suggest we have a look here :
http://www.strangefate.com/textures/sf.html
(I'm sure Stacy knows this place very well )

I have some others in my computer that might be usefull.
Daynlohim will create a web page in which we will be able to choose which texture is going to be used.

But first of all, we must choose at least two textures that would represent the basic ground for the "bright" city, and the basic ground for the "dark" one.

I have some ideas of terrain that I will submit to your approbation tomorrow.

Have a good night !

For right now, I would like to work on the bridges and holes, I have a few ideas for them And letters G-J for now also.

I really like this texture: But I am not sure for what.

Very nice Work guys !

I just can't read all the messages because my english is poor but screenshots are very pleasants


[Edit d'Enki] : Nice to see you again Uldaric ! Et merci !

Hi !
The texture is quite good, that's true !
I'm thinking of an use for this, maybe for the "dark" city ?

I modified the high tower size to make it larger, and I also create a thin tall tower. But, I promise, these are the last modifications of the same model
The next one will be totally new

For the size, is it ok for you Drenark ?

I also create a Ground texture (very simple, as a starting point)
What do you think of that ?

Stacy a écrit:For right now, I would like to work on the bridges and holes, I have a few ideas for them And letters G-J for now also.

I really like this texture: But I am not sure for what.

Use it for dark grounds and metal structure like bridge or metallic strccutures and elevators

Here is what I have been working on, it is not finished yet, but I have made some progress.



I made this texture for a "ground", what do you think of it?

Very good work Stacy !
It goes beyond my imagination !
Nice work on the texture too.
I am going to put it in my models to see how it fits.

Just one thing, in the part of the building where I use the texture "window1"
I modifies some properties in the auroratrimesh modifier :

- Alpha is for me 0.9
- Self illumination color is :
0
0
249
170
255
249

- Override mat values :

- Ambiant :
255
255
255
0
0
255

- Diffuse :
116
98
255
175
157
255

Specular :
0
186
148
138
255
248

- Shininess : 5

Maybe you can use it to seee if it improves the model in game.
(That's the case for me )


Bye !

- Diffuse :
116
98
255
175
257
255

Is this meant to be 157?

And thank you, that does look nicer.

I still have to fix the walkmesh on the bridge tiles, and make a few more bridge tiles (at right angles, etc).

Then I will begin to put more decoration in the tiles if it does not increase the polycount too much, and last I will make some alternate versions of each tile.